How The U.S. Racked Up Its $40 Trillion Debt

Steve Hayes is joined by Jonah Goldberg, Kevin Williamson, and Mike Warren to discuss the U.S. crossing the $40 trillion debt threshold and the prospect of “growing our way out of it.” The Agenda: —Kevin explains how we got here —Entitlement spending —What would Paul Ryan do —The DOGE effort —Growing our way out of debt —NWYT: Adulthood disappointments Show notes: Steve Hayes is CEO and editor of The Dispatch, based in Annapolis, Maryland. Prior to co-founding the company in 2019, he worked at The Weekly Standard for 18 years, covering Washington, politics, and national security. Steve is the author of two New York Times bestsellers. He also worked as a contributor at CNN and Fox News, and currently serves as a political analyst at NBC News. When Steve is not focused on The Dispatch, he’s probably traveling with his family, grilling, or riding his mountain bike. Jonah Goldberg is editor-in-chief and co-founder of The Dispatch, based in Washington, D.C. Prior to that, enormous lizards roamed the Earth. More immediately prior to that, Jonah spent two decades at National Review, where he was a senior editor, among other things. He is also a bestselling author, longtime columnist for the Los Angeles Times, commentator for CNN, and a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. When he is not writing the G-File or hosting The Remnant podcast, he finds real joy in family time, attending to his dogs and cat, and blaming Steve Hayes for various things. Kevin D. Williamson is national correspondent at The Dispatch and is based in Virginia. Prior to joining the company in 2022, he spent 15 years as a writer and editor at National Review, worked as the theater critic at the New Criterion, and had a long career in local newspapers. He is also a writer in residence at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. When Kevin is not reporting on the world outside Washington for his Wanderland newsletter, you can find him at the rifle range or reading a book about literally almost anything other than politics. Michael Warren is politics editor at The Dispatch and is based in Washington, D.C. A former on-air reporter at CNN and a senior writer at The Weekly Standard, he has spent more than 15 years covering lawmakers on Capitol Hill, the White House and the executive branch, the conservative movement, and political campaigns. When Mike is not reporting, writing, editing, and podcasting, he is probably spending time with his wife and three sons. The podcast transcription below was generated using artificial intelligence and may include occasional errors or misspellings. Steve Hayes 0:00 [intro music] Welcome to the Dispatch Podcast. I'm Steve Hayes. On today's roundtable, we'll discuss the US national debt hitting 40 10000000000 dollars, how we got here, who's to blame, and the prospect of growing our way out of our debt problem, or as Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent would have it, growing our way out of our debt problem with tariffs. And then not worth your time, the disappointing aspects of adulthood. I'm joined today by the Dispatch's Editor-in-chief, Jonah Goldberg, National Correspondent Kevin Williamson, and Politics Editor Mike Warren. Let's dive right in. [instrumental music] Steve Hayes 0:59 Welcome, gentlemen. We had the unpleasant news last week that the United States had passed 40 10000000000 dollars in debt threshold. We seem to be passing these huge thresholds, maybe not the round even numbers like 40 10000000000 dollars, but the new 1000000000, we seem to be passing these more regularly at a faster cadence these days. We talk about debt and deficits on this podcast pretty regularly, but I thought it was worth really trying to understand where we are and how we got here and what, if any, possible solutions there are, and if there are not good solutions, where this is headed in this conversation today. So let me start with you, Kevin. You wrote today about debt and deficits. We're recording Monday morning. You wrote last week about the tragedy of US debt. Can you give us in a, a big picture, sort of talk to me like I'm a 3rd grader trying to understand why the United States has 40 10000000000 dollars in debt. How did we get to this point? Kevin Williamson 2:08 Well, because we spent our allowance, Kevin Williamson 2:12 if you're a third grader. Steve Hayes 2:14 [laughs] Interactive transcripts are available to Premium members. Join to follow along with the audio. Join Now More We Think You’d Like