Chrises clash on health, homelessness, cost of living in last leaders' debate

The final leaders' debate for this election campaign is done and dusted, with the two Chrises clashing on health, homelessness, the economy and the cost of living.At the outset, host Paddy Gower introduced 18-year-olds Finn and River, first time voters sitting in the audience.He challenged National's Christopher Luxon and Labour's Chris Hipkins to win them over.Throughout the hour they sold their plans to improve New Zealanders' lives, but they also spent a fair chunk of time having a whack at the other over their track records.Here's how it all played out.HealthHealth was up first, with Hipkins saying the system was in crisis, and Luxon calling it challenging. (He said later it was a crisis, but he was focused on fixing the problem rather than debating terminology).Hipkins said Luxon was "in denial" about the extent of the crisis: "If you won't listen to the doctors and the nurses who are telling you the health system is in crisis, then you are never going to be able to fix it."He laid out Labour's plans to hire more hospital staff and offer people three free GP visits, while Luxon said his government was recruiting more staff, building another medical school and expanding pharmacists' remit.Hipkins brought up the problems with staffing at Starship Hospital's cancer ward, saying nurses were "desperate" for more staff.Luxon replied: "We should have a dispassionate, facts-based conversation about that," saying there were problems under Hipkins' leadership too.The debate descended into an argument over the number of nurses that had been hired in the last three years - an argument that's been playing out for months between National and Labour.HomelessnessThe leaders were asked what they would do about rough sleeping.Hipkins leapt at the chance to accuse Luxon of criminalising homelessness with the introduction of move-on orders.Luxon said no one wanted to see people homeless, but his government's dealing with "intimidating, disturbing, disruptive behaviour" and giving police another set of tools.Gower asked the pair whether a camp of 40 homeless people in Whangārei should be moved on.Hipkins said no, and Luxon said the police should use their judgement on that.The debate hosted by Paddy Gower (R).Supplied / StuffSocial mediaWould they stand up to big social media companies and the harm they cause?Both Luxon and Hipkins said yes. Both their parties supported a social media ban for under-16s, and had committed to making it happen after the election.Gower asked whether New Zealand should match Australia's plan to allow people to switch off the algorithm on their feed.Hipkins said Labour would do that, while Luxon said he was open to it.What about tax - is it morally acceptable for Facebook to pay 0.33 percent of its revenue in tax in New Zealand?"I don't think that's acceptable, no," Hipkins said.Luxon said there was a need to be pragmatic: "You're not going to solve that problem as New Zealand on its own, Paddy. You have to act in concert with like-minded friends around the world."Economy and superannuationBoth National and Labour planned to return the government's books to surplus by 2028/29.Luxon said Hipkins' promises were unfunded, and Hipkins said that was not true."All he's got is blame and excuses," Hipkins said.What followed was minutes of Hipkins and Luxon talking over each other, bagging each other's record and crowing about their own.Talk moved on to the "fiscal time bomb" of superannuation.Hipkins said Labour would keep the age at 65: "It's not right to say that future generations of New Zealanders should pay for the retirement of today's retirees and then not get that themselves."Luxon said he wants to raise the age slowly, gradually - but political consensus was needed."Yes, that instinctively is a position of the National Party. But I do want to work in a cross-party way with Chris to try and have a proper conversation about retirement."Coalitions: who will work with who?The polls have Opportunity holding the balance of power. Hipkins reiterated he'd work with them - although "it's unclear yet exactly what it is that they stand for", he said.Luxon reiterated he would not. He refused to put his job on the line, though, and commit to resigning rather than governing with Opportunity."That's a ridiculous question," he said.Gower brought up Green and Te Pāti Māori MPs' recent visit to a Mongrel Mob pad, and asked whether Hipkins would refuse to work with them.Hipkins repeated they won't hold relevant portfolios (such as Corrections) and pointed to Luxon being happy to have a foreign minister "who makes racist comments about Indians".Luxon replied: "You've got partners that want to be in coalition with the Mongrel Mob, my friend."Hipkins said that was ridiculous.The two leaders sold their plans to improve New Zealanders' lives - while also having a whack at the other over their track records.Supplied / StuffCost of livingLuxon said his way of dealing with the cost of living was to grow the economy, because a bigger pie allowed more slices to be shared.He added that, for some people, things were getting better.Hipkins said that was completely untrue: "You are so out of touch ... you are not up to the job."Luxon bit back saying Labour relied on bribes, handouts and unfunded promises.Hipkins said a Labour government would bring down the cost of living, and laid out policies like free doctors' visits and public transport fare caps.EducationLuxon said National was focused on the basics: attendance, reading, writing and maths."What we're doing is working," he said, adding that Erica Stanford would go down as one of the best education ministers.Hipkins said Labour would start at improving early childhood education, increase attendance, and look to a future after school, promoting his plan to write off some student loan debt and get people into apprenticeships.Luxon said Hipkins was "the most abysmal education minister"."That's just petty and pathetic," Hipkins snapped back.Luxon said Hipkins' record was "shameful" and he delivered no value, and did not move the system forward.Hipkins said he started structured literacy and Luxon had continued it, and was claiming victory over it.Quickfire consensusAreas of agreement emerged in the quick fire round.The pair had the same answers: is exploiting the MMP system to create an overhang cheating? Yes. Should child abusers receive a life sentence? They're open to looking at it. Should the government deploy noise cameras to snap boy racers? Yes. (This one is an ACT party policy). Should gambling ads around sport be banned? Yes. Should we have a referendum on a four-year term? Yes. Has the word Aotearoa become divisive? No.On Wednesday, the New Zealand Herald will host its Powerbrokers' debate with the rest of the party leaders.