‘Amazingly upbeat’: Lex Lasry on Van Nguyen’s bravery as he awaited execution

A few months ago Lex Lasry reached his limit. “I got tired of being told by the legal profession that I couldn’t talk about this, I couldn’t talk about that and I couldn’t post online – I had to maintain the dignified judicial silence,” says Lasry, 78, who spent almost 20 years as a Supreme Court judge in Victoria and the Northern Territory. “Eventually I quit being a judicial officer.”Then Lasry approached Greg Barns, another high-profile lawyer, with an idea. The result is Law the Podcast: a series of candid discussions about some of the country’s most significant court cases and justice debates.Although the law is complicated, the language used by Lasry and Barns is not. “The more that lawyers use [arcane terminology], the harder it is for people to understand,” Lasry says, noting that legal discussions are inextricably linked to human rights, social issues, politics and democracy – which is why the pair want everyday Australians to understand and participate in these debates.“[It’s important] for people to know when their rights are being taken away,” Lasry says, “because so many rights that are taken away are never restored.”Worst habit?The one that annoys me most – never mind my partner – is that I cannot shut my brain off. Some of the best ideas I’ve had, particularly professionally, have come to me under the shower. But [my mind] is running all the time, and sometimes it interferes with my ability to sleep. It’s like a committee of people living in my head who keep telling me: “You’ve got to be careful about this. What about that?” I just can’t stop that happening.Greatest fear?Being unoccupied. I think that’s why I’ve retired three times, because every time I stopped, I panicked. That’s one of the reasons I’m doing the podcast. I think a lot of it is to do with ego: whether we like to admit it or not, we define ourselves by something we do – in my case, being a lawyer and then a judge. It’s the state of mind of an egotist. There are some people who can’t wait to retire and do nothing; to work in the garden and read the paper and drink coffee. I just couldn’t live like that.The line that stayed with you?“We are all greater than the worst thing we’ve ever done.” [It’s a quote] from African-American human rights lawyer Bryan Stevenson. I think it’s from the days when he was doing death-penalty cases in the United States and he was talking about some of the horrible crimes that people he acted for committed. It’s true that there are people who’ve done shocking things but even those people are more than that act.Biggest regret?I wish I’d lived in Europe for two or three years [after completing university]. Instead, I went straight into articles and then to the Bar. I wish I’d travelled around Europe on the smell of an oily rag when I was young because you do different things: you’ve got a backpack, you’re staying in budget accommodation, you’re hitchhiking and meeting people and experiencing what the world is like at that level. I think it’s a lot more real than the way I do it now, where you go to Paris, stay in a nice hotel, go to the Louvre, eat in nice restaurants and then fly home.Tell us about your turning point …I did university at a mediocre-to-poor level; it was a way of passing time. Then the first time I went to the Supreme Court, as an article clerk to instruct a barrister in a case, I was captivated by the atmosphere of the courtroom. I don’t think I realised what being an advocate involved – all of a sudden, I had something that I had enthusiasm for.There have been a few cases that I’ve struggled with; the most obvious is Van Nguyen’s case, in Singapore in 2005, particularly at the end when he was executed [Nguyen, from Melbourne, was hanged after being found guilty of drug trafficking.] I’ve always maintained that if you are emotionally involved in a case, then you are of no use to your client; you have to be independent and down to earth about the advice you’re giving.Barrister Joseph Theseira (left) and Lasry become emotional as they read materials belonging to Australian man Van Nguyen, the day after his execution in Singapore in 2005.Kate GeraghtyBut I certainly remember the day that [fellow barrister] Julian McMahon and I went to Changi Prison to say goodbye. I wasn’t in the best shape and, indeed, our client – because he was a brave young man, for all his faults – was counselling us to some degree.On the way to prison I asked a Singapore lawyer who was part of our team, and who had been through [a client’s execution], what it was like. He said, “You often find that it’s the condemned man who is comforting the lawyers.”Van had converted to Catholicism at quite a late stage. He told me he was setting out to convert me to some form of god-fearing religion, but he never got me there. He was amazingly upbeat for a man who was going to be executed the following morning. A lot of lawyers who do this work tell you that, often, clients get to the stage where they are resigned to what’s happening.The artwork or song you wish was yours?Easy: Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin, probably the greatest rock’n’roll song ever recorded. When my time comes I’ve given instructions that it’s to be played at my departure. In my really perverse moments I’ve thought about playing Highway to Hell by AC/DC as well – and I’m not yet sure in which order I’d play them.If you could time-travel, where would you go?Paris in the 1920s. It must have been a marvellous social, cultural and indulgent time. Paris is such a magical city, and with people like Ernest Hemingway, Gertrude Stein and F. Scott Fitzgerald, who were part of that cultural movement, it would have been wonderful.Law the Podcast is available on all major audio streaming platforms.Take 7 appears in Spectrum every SaturdayMacy Gray was dumped by her record label while pregnant. 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